Hello and welcome to Issue 048 of Clearing The Bases, an email newsletter in conjunction with the My Baseball History podcast hosted by Dan Wallach.
On Wednesday, October 8th, Season 5 of the podcast began when our LATEST EPISODE with Larry Lester and Stephanie Liscio went live. Larry and Stephanie are two of the leading Negro Leagues authorities in the world. They are each researchers, published authors, public speakers, and historians. Between the two of them, they have more than 80 years of experience researching the Negro Leagues.
They were my guests during a special panel discussion which we recorded in front of a live audience at Cleveland’s historic League Park. It was such a thrill to record this interview with a bunch of people sitting in the room with us, reacting in real time. That’s something I had never done before, and to have done it this time at League Park was very special.
Today, League Park is owned and maintained by the City of Cleveland, and it was thanks to the city’s Division of Recreation that we had access to the Visitor Center to record the panel discussion you’ll hear when you listen to the episode. So thank you to both Mike Sierputowski and Ralph King for helping to make that happen, and especially to Chuck Carter, who is the head groundskeeper at League Park and a true friend.
Stephanie Liscio is the author of Integrating Cleveland Baseball: Media Activism, the Integration of the Indians, and the Demise of the Negro League Buckeyes. She is a member of the leadership team in Cleveland’s Jack Graney Chapter of SABR, and has contributed essays to a number of SABR publications, and to the Black Ball Journal. She completed her Ph.D. in history at Case Western Reserve University, where she wrote a dissertation on stadiums and community after World War II. In addition, Stephanie conducted research and wrote for the Encyclopedia of Cleveland History, and she has worked as a researcher for University Hospitals’ 150th anniversary celebration, for the National Museum of Organized Crime and Law Enforcement in Las Vegas, and has contributed to several documentary films.
Larry Lester is an esteemed author, historian, and consultant in film and museum curation. He is renowned for his lifelong dedication to preserving African American history, particularly through the lens of sports and cultural heritage. He is the former chairman of the Society for American Baseball Research’s Negro League Committee. With Buck O’Neil, Slick Suratt, and Phil Dixon – who was our guest on Episode 4 of Season 1 of My Baseball History – Larry co-founded the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum in Kansas City, and served as its Research Director, Senior Editor, and Treasurer from 1991 to 1995.
From 2001 through 2004, Larry co-chaired the Hall of Fame’s Negro Leagues Researchers & Authors Group, which unearthed huge amounts of new data about Negro Leagues baseball for the “Out of the Shadows” research project. That pioneering stats project has since been augmented by the efforts of others, notably the Seamheads group, with which MLB launched its first iteration of the integrated historical database, including more than 2,300 players from the Negro Leagues.
In 2006, Larry chaired the Hall of Fame’s Special Negro Leagues Committee, selecting a record 17 new Negro League players, executives, and managers—an unprecedented recognition of their contributions. Larry was the recipient of the 2016 Henry Chadwick Award which honors baseball’s great researchers, historians, statisticians, analysts, and archivists for their invaluable contributions to making baseball the game that links America’s present with its past, which is presented annually by the Society for American Baseball Research. The following year, SABR gave Larry their highest honor, the Bob Davids Award, which honors contributions to baseball that reflect the ingenuity, integrity, and self-sacrifice of the founder and past president of SABR, L. Robert “Bob” Davids. He is listed as a contributing researcher to more than 220 publications on African American history, and has authored, co-authored, or edited numerous books about Black Baseball history.
While we do touch on Black baseball topics dating all the way back to the 19th century in this discussion, Larry, Stephanie, and I primarily focus on the Negro Leagues in the 1940s during this interview, the last great decade of the Negro Leagues.
In this episode, we cover LOTS of ground.
Larry tells us how the feud between Babe Ruth and Major League Baseball’s Commissioner Kennesaw Mountain Landis began, which ended with organized baseball having a new rule regarding barnstorming against Negro League teams because Landis was afraid the Black teams would make his teams look bad.
We find out how teams danced around the idea of integration in the years leading up to Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier, toeing the line just enough to appease increasing pressure from the public to integrate, without ever seriously considering it.
We learn the names of many great players and unsung heroes of the Negro Leagues. Not just those who made it to Cooperstown, but many of whom had great careers without receiving national recognition.
And we hear how statistics often don’t tell the whole story, straight from the mouth of the man who single-handedly tracked down many of those statistics in the first place.
I don’t want to give too much away, but the episode is out now, so you can listen to it as soon as you get done reading this email and re-listen whenever you want after that. Don’t forget to CLICK HERE to follow along with the liner notes as you listen.
The liner notes have nearly 200 specifically curated photos and videos which directly and chronologically follow the conversation Larry, Stephanie, and I had. In the caption for each, I also included extra links so you can do a deeper dive into any particular person or story which piques your interest as you listen. It’s always interesting for me to hear how listeners interact with the liner notes. I’ve had people tell me they don’t always listen to the episodes, but they always read the liner notes and click a bunch of links to do extra reading, and I’ve had people tell me they always listen to the episodes, but never read the liner notes. Both sets of people tell me how much enjoyment they get out of their method, but the people who seem to enjoy My Baseball History the most are the ones who do both. But hey, it’s your life, I’m not gonna tell you how to live it. I’m just glad you’re all liking the work I do.
As you know, we do giveaways associated with each episode, and the winner of the trivia contest from this episode with Larry and Stephanie will win a copy of The Negro Leagues Book, which was edited by Larry Lester and Dick Clark. The Society for American Baseball Research calls it “the most complete collection of information on baseball’s Negro Leagues ever published” and The Diamond Angle calls it “the standard reference for all who wish learn more about, and do research on the Negro Leagues.”
You can enter for your chance to win by following @shoelesspodcast on twitter or bluesky and re-posting the pinned post at the top of our profile which mentions the latest episode with Larry and Stephanie. That post asks a trivia question which is answered during the episode. Answer that trivia question correctly with your re-post, and you’re automatically entered into the contest. We’ll pick a winner before the next episode of the podcast goes live on Wednesday, November 12th. All you have to do to be considered is follow us on twitter or bluesky, and quote that pinned post before then, but feel free to tag a friend in the comments or write why you think you should win. It may help your chances of winning…
This episode with Larry and Stephanie was the first episode of Season 5 of My Baseball History after I took the summer off to do some traveling and go on a couple baseball-related road trips. During those trips, I was able to record nearly half of the interviews which will be featured in episodes of this upcoming season. But the work never stops, and I’m actually going to be on a road trip this weekend to record two more interviews! My route is going to take me through upstate New York on the way back to Cleveland, and I’ll be close enough to Cooperstown to veer off and swing by the National Baseball Hall of Fame on Sunday for a bit. If you’re in or near the area and want to meet up, let me know!
I’m excited to visit the Hall to see the new Yakyu | Baseball exhibit which just opened this summer on the third floor. As the Hall’s website explains: “Baseball in the United States and yakyu in Japan exist, and in fact prosper, as a result of the emergence of transpacific systems of exchange between the two countries over the past 150 years. This exhibit explores the wide-ranging exchange of baseball between Japan and the United States from the Meiji era to today and the transpacific circulation of baseball concepts, styles of play, fan experiences, equipment, and people that shaped the shared culture of the game.”
If you haven’t listened to the season finale of Season 4 of My Baseball History, you should take the opportunity to do that soon. In that episode, I spoke with JOSH RAWITCH, who is the President of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum in Cooperstown. It’ll be nice to see what he and the staff have been up to since my last visit. And, of course, while I’m in Cooperstown, I’ll be stopping at Willis Monie Books to browse through their baseball books for a couple hours and hopefully come home with a handful of new-to-me things. Hope to see some of you there, too!
Don’t forget, it’s a huge help when you Rate and Review the podcast on whatever platform you choose to listen. 5-Star ratings help our podcast get shown on more people’s suggested podcast pages, which means more people will hear our show. It just takes a couple seconds of your time, but it really helps us a lot. And of course, liking us on social media, interacting with our posts, and sharing things with your friends is great, too. Feel free to forward this email to anyone in your life who loves baseball, and hopefully they’ll enjoy the podcast and learn a thing or two. But no matter how you choose to support us, even if it’s just by listening, we appreciate you being here.
Until next time, I’m Dan Wallach, and this is My Baseball History.
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